John Sanford Of Axios On How To Navigate The Generational Differences That Are Disrupting Workplaces

Today’s workplaces are a melting pot of Baby Boomers, Gen Xers, Millennials, and Gen Zers. Each generation brings its unique perspective, work ethics, communication styles, and values. While this diversity can foster innovation and creativity, it can also lead to misunderstandings, conflicts, and productivity challenges. How can businesses effectively bridge these generational gaps to create harmonious and thriving work environments? As part of this series, we had the pleasure of interviewing John Sanford.

John Sanford Work:

• VP Consulting Services — HR Solutions Division @ Axios HR
• Director of Human Resources @ Driesenga & Associates, Inc.
• Human Resource and Operations positions @ Clark Retail Enterprises, Inc.

John Sanford, based in Comstock Park, Michigan, United States, is currently a VP Consulting Services — HR Solutions Division at Axios HR, bringing experience from previous roles at Driesenga & Associates, Inc. and Clark Retail Enterprises, Inc.. John Sanford holds a 1990–1991 Bachelors in Management/Human Resources @ Grand Valley State University. With a robust skill set that includes Leadership, Employment Law Compliance, Personnel Policies, Employee Engagement, Human Resources and more, John Sanford contributes valuable insights to the industry. John Sanford has 4 emails on RocketReach.

Thank you so much for joining us in this interview series. Before we dive into our discussion about succession, our readers would love to “get to know you” a bit better. Can you share with us the backstory about what brought you to your specific career path?

My experience spans operations with P&L responsibility, large scale employee relations including EEO & DOL case management, leading an organizations HR function and now providing consulting across the management & HR spectrum to organizational leaders.

I think the thread that holds all these experiences together is the drive to create great workplaces where every team member can contribute their best, understand how their contributions impact the organization, and how the organization impacts its clients/customers and/or community. I grew up in a small town where both of my parents were active in our lives and the lives of our community (boards, city council, volunteering), so it feels that has kind of been baked into my DNA.

What do you think makes your company stand out? Can you share a story?

Axios HR is built on relationships, both internal & external. We built a set of Core Values from a bottom-up approach that guides our daily work, and as an ESOP (employee owned), everyone has a vested interest in our clients success.

Specific to our Core Values, we posted the announcement of the ESOP, and as that concept began to take hold across the company, I was part of the team that came together to redefine our Mission, Vision & Core Values. You imagine in most organizations this happens at an executive retreat somewhere and the “new words” come down from the mountain top on stone tablets. Not so here.

True to the companies’ roots, a group of 20 or so team members from across the company at every level representing every team came together with a facilitator. Dan Barcheski, our founder, set the tone by talking about the history of the company, how we made it to where we were at that time, answered questions and then exited the room, leaving us to do the work and decide, ultimately , how to define who & what we are, and how we do it — our “why”. That was pretty great to be a part of, and we rolled out the new Core Purpose — “Vested in Making a Difference”, a nod to our ESOP vesting process and making a difference in our communities, along with our Core Values: growing by learning, finding a better way, putting team before self, committing to serving, and doing the right thing.

You are a successful business leader. Which three character traits do you think were most instrumental to your success? Can you please share a story or example for each?

Leave it better — I’ve always tried to impress upon my kids as they were growing up, in any situation or place, to “leave it better”. From simple things like turning off the lights to picking up trash, to participating in civic engagement activities, you can either be someone that contributes from society or takes from it. Around this time of year there is always talk about it being better to give than receive — we need this thought process to permeate our approach year-round.

Get involved — I’ve always had a problem when someone says “somebody should do something about that”, or complains with no ideas or solutions. Are you not someone? Then do something about it — step up!

Why? Why not? — I think sometimes HR gets a bad rap as being the “fun police”, or the folks that get in the way of getting things done. I take a different approach, I try to make sure I can clearly explain the “why” or “why not” of a situation. The answer is almost never a straight yes or no, it’s a conversation about context and why, with the goal of getting the desired end result. This is often going to require more work, more conversations, it’s rarely the easy path, but it almost always results in a better outcome.

In your experience, what are the most distinct characteristics, values, and work preferences of each generation currently present in the workplace?

Right now we have four, sometimes even five generations in most workplaces. Each has influenced the other, forward & backward, usually in positive ways. There are certainly differences which, like any “stereotype” may have been earned but do not apply to everyone within their generation.

Phyllis Weiss Haserot, author of You Can’t Google It!: The Compelling Case for CrossGenerational Conversation at Work, succinctly outlined the key differences and similarities among the different generations:

Boomers:

• Continual learners, many of whom want to keep working for the intellectual stimulation.
• Resist any concept of them as “old” — watch your language!
• More tech-savvy and into social media than given credit for.
• Like in-person contact.
• Still eager to change the world and optimistic.

Gen Xers:

• Self-reliant and want their own piece of the action.
• Time is currency, like money.
• Family and friends come before a boomer-type, work-centric focus.
• Slacker reputation evolved to hard-working.
• Don’t trust large institutions.

Millennials/Gen Y:

• Internet as №1 resource, and willing to trade privacy for information and convenience.
• Expect a lot of guidance and free information.
• Short attention span, uncomfortable with ambiguity.
• Demand transparency.
• Must see career opportunities or become impatient and move on.

Gen Zers:

• Hard-working problem solvers.
• Concerned with privacy and cybersecurity.
• Value-conscious.
• Very devoted to and personally involved in social causes.
• Want prompt and frequent feedback.

As an example of the forward & backward influence, the Value-conscious/Purpose Driven needs of the Gen-Z have been taken up by their predecessors and become more and more important in their career choices.

Can you describe a specific instance where generational differences caused a significant challenge in the workplace? How was it addressed, and what lessons were learned?

I think one of the leading topics in this area impacts the onsite/hybrid/work from home aspect of many roles today. While this is certainly influenced by personality type (we leverage Myers-Briggs Type Indicator (MBTI) at Axios HR, it can also be influenced by generations as well.

Generally we’ve seen staff at both ends of the spectrum, Boomers & Gen Zer’s, putting greater value on in-office time — collaboration, social interactions, mentoring/learning opportunities, etc. However, the Xers & Millennials, in their prime parenting (and parent care) years, really value the work from home and flex options. All generations like/want flexibility, but individuals will migrate towards what they value most.

This can, and has, created tension between managers and staff if expectations are not clear.

Similarly, the ability to “drop work” due to a personal or familial issue, let’s say, a “mental health day”, may seem strange to Boomers & Xers, who often pride themselves in putting the work first and powering through, but even that dichotomy is slowly breaking down.

Technology adoption varies greatly between generations. How do you recommend companies bridge the tech-savviness gap without alienating any generational group?

I think one of the keys here is to ask the question. The implied bias here is that the Millenials & Zers will be your “tech go-to’s”, but if you ask your staff to step up when a technology focused project is coming up, you may be surprised who raises their hand, and allow for folks to do so individually. You may also want to invite some folks you know are savvy or have interest.

These folks may be “making room” for younger talent to step up, or may be enforcing their own implied bias on themselves. Let them know we need experienced perspectives, folks that have been through and managed chance initiatives, to help temper the enthusiasm of those that have not work through similar challenges.

How can organizations create cross-generational mentorship programs that allow older and younger employees to learn from each other?

As I mentioned prior, these four or five generations have a lot more in common than not, especially amongst your best staff — they are open minded and active learners, they want to make a difference in the organization, and those with the experience often excel and share those experiences with others.

From formal assigned in-line mentorships, cross functional mentorships, speed mentoring, all forms should be focused on “mutual mentorship”, the concept that both individuals have something to contribute and to learn. In addition, purposeful time must be allocated to this process — while some mentoring may happen on the fly or by chance, the most successful organizations will dedicate the resources & time to make it happen.

From face-to-face conversations to instant messaging, each generation has its communication preference. How can businesses foster effective communication that caters to these diverse preferences?

Most organizations have operationalized how they communicate, and at times these are driven by compliance requirements — think financial services/banking, healthcare, government, so at times this must be a more formal process.

This said, laying out expectations of what kinds of communications are appropriate in various situations can help level-set expectations for all staff, and allow for multiple methods to be leveraged.

• Project related communications may need to be in Teams or Slack to ensure communication continuity.
• Check-ins may be via phone, video chat, or in person.
• Quick verification of known data, a specific need, or availability might be done via text.
• Brainstorming or problem resolution should often be done in person, or a combination of in person & video so that visual cues are not missed and all participants can be engaged (by a properly trained facilitator).

There are exceptions to every rule, but laying out organizational expectations helps put the team on the same playing field.

How should training and development programs be tailored to cater to the unique learning styles and expectations of different generations?

Learning styles are individual, not necessarily generational. All T&D programs should cater to a variety of learning styles, be they kinesthetic, visual, auditory, reading/writing, and blended styles. There are also plenty of other aspects to individual learning and work styles, and most research has shown that training that blends all of these aspects is often the most effective for all learners.

Most online Learning Management Systems (LMS) have migrated to a micro learning format — shorter, more impactful/actionable training that can be put into practice immediately. There is still a place for group learning and shared experiences as well, whether they are focused on a particular knowledge/ability outcome or are simply to help build teamwork & comradery. These experiences can range from actual classroom training (say it ain’t so!), affinity groups, book clubs (work topical or social), to more physical activities.

This past summer my work team started playing pickleball together — we did a group lesson together and then met weekly at a set time/place depending on individual availability (and client needs). Our cross-generational group of 8 averaged 5+ participants, and often all 8 were able to attend. We actually enjoyed this enough, and the time together, we recently decided to get together bi-weekly during the winter for an hour of bowling.

This came out of a chance happening when two team members had been bowling (separately) during a rainy weekend and shared this during the “segue” portion of our weekly check-in meeting, and it just sprang from there. That and a bit of company history of holding one of our quarterly all-company meetings at a local “pin lane”.

In what ways can leaders ensure they’re being inclusive and not harboring unconscious biases towards one generation over another?

Ask the question — ask for help. This could be individual conversations, focus groups, or via survey of organizational perceptions. Potentially they enlist an advisory group to help view various organizational issues from multiple perspectives, be they generational or other demographic/social aspects.

While most leaders are good at scanning the environment before making decisions, ensuring they are reducing as many blind spots as possible, and we all have them, can only aid them in coming to better decisions. I’ll circle back a bit to the Core Purpose/Core Values exercise we went through at Axios HR. There were managers/supervisors involved, but nobody from the “executive team”. Lots of perspectives were worked through over those two days.

As we look towards the future and the eventual integration of newer generations into the workforce, what strategies should businesses implement now to be prepared for even more diverse generational dynamics?

For me it’s really about creating those organizational habits (processes), which become organizational life styles (cultural norms/core values), with what we have in front of us today. It’s said for an individual to create a new habit and lifestyle, it takes 21–28 for that new habit to feel natural, & 90–120 days for it to solidify into a lifestyle change. Your results may vary!

In an organization it just naturally takes longer because you have people at the extremes of any range — your early adopters, your spectators (the wait & see crowd), and your resisters/laggers.

If we have these kinds of conversations and take diverse perspectives into account as part of our organizational DNA, we’ll be ready for whatever is “next” regardless of what that may entail. The process can help initiate new members to organizational norms, but also must evolve to learn from and integrate new perceptions, processes & methods into the organization.

What are your “Five Things Leaders Need to Know About How to Navigate the Generational Differences that are Disrupting Workplaces”?

1 . Solicit feedback regularly and ask questions — for leaders, the best way to demystify something or dispel fear is to get curious and ask questions with the mindset that feedback is a gift even if it may be something we don’t want to hear. We all have implicit biases — we’re just wired that way. Focus on dismantling those biases (or stereotypes) one at a time. This will help set the tone for your leaders & their teams.

2 . Establish norms for working together — use all your resources and build systems & processes that leverage the strengths of each in your organization. Always be open to updating/evolving these processes/systems based on new technology, etc.

3 . Create opportunities for your team to connect — this can be both at & outside of work, be it team activities, group training & development, volunteering in the community, or social times within the organization. It can even include moderated discussions where staff have the opportunity to tell stories about their work experiences/challenges, and how they overcame them, or to ask for help.

4 . Flex work can be flexible — it kind of makes me laugh a bit when groups want to put a lot of structure around “flex working”. They are kind of missing the point. It’s about being able to let go, trust your staff, and hold them accountable for their work quality, productivity, etc. within your operational structure. Provide simple guidelines, manage expectations, and ideally get out of the way.

5 . Unite Around a Common Purpose — helping your team keep their eye on the big picture, the “why”, and how they contribute to it, is one of the most important things a leader can do. It’s kind of like a political stump speech, you just keep repeating it…..

Can you please give us your favorite “Life Lesson Quote”? Do you have a story about how that was relevant in your life?

Back in my retail days I had a manager that always said “trust but verify”. Good advice if you’re an auditor, but I’ve kind of shifted that over the years to “trust, but coach and be clear about your expectations”. I love the work Brene Brown has done, and one of her keys around communications has been “clear is kind; unclear is unkind”, and she picked this up in a 12-step meeting, and later found how it applied based on her research.

From there, you also need to allow folks to find their own path. Nobody likes to be told what to do, so clear expectations about outcomes will allow folks to navigate in their own way.

Off-topic, but I’m curious. As someone steering the ship, what thoughts or concerns often keep you awake at night? How do those thoughts influence your daily decision-making process?

My role is usually helping guide/counsel the person steering the ship — providing advice/counsel to business owners, managers, executive directors of nonprofits, school leaders, boards, etc. We’re all in with our clients, and there is a strong trust relationship there, so we take our role seriously.

At the same time, if you’re not enjoying the work most of the time, it’s time for a career change. I tend to sleep well most nights, but some days I do beat the alarm and am ready to go early, so I try to take advantage of that to get some additional things accomplished. I’m not a morning person, and earlier in my career I used to pull the occasional all-nighter when things were heating up, but with more experience I’ve gotten better at metering my effort.

You are a person of great influence. If you could start a movement that would bring the most amount of good to the most amount of people, what would that be? You never know what your idea can trigger. :-)

I think my movement would be focused around positive intent.

Most people in this world are trying to do the right thing, be good people, take care of their friends/families, and live a decent life. As humans we tend to be wired to fill in gaps in information with negative bias (it’s human nature, we need to protect ourselves), but 99 times out of 100 things are never as bad as we first assume, and we waste a lot of time, energy, and social media scrolling through negativity bias. Hot takes seldom move a conversation forward.

We need to pump the brakes more often, assume more positive intent (and/or a lock of information on the other party’s part), and start asking questions to get to their intent. It almost always comes from a good place, it’s just being framed in a negative/protect my tribe way. Not easy, takes some time, but it can really help change your approach to most things.

How can our readers further follow you online?

I’m not much into leaving an electron trail. If you want to follow me, get on a bike, grab a pickleball racquet, meet me on the water, or find your community passion and volunteer. You can however find me on LinkedIn

Thank you for the time you spent sharing these fantastic insights. We wish you only continued success in your great work!

About the Interviewer: Cynthia Corsetti is an esteemed executive coach with over two decades in corporate leadership and 11 years in executive coaching. Author of the upcoming book, “Dark Drivers,” she guides high-performing professionals and Fortune 500 firms to recognize and manage underlying influences affecting their leadership. Beyond individual coaching, Cynthia offers a 6-month executive transition program and partners with organizations to nurture the next wave of leadership excellence.