David Roche of Grey Area Coaching: Five Things I Wish Someone Told Me Before I Became A CEO

As a part of our series called ‘Five Things I Wish Someone Told Me Before I Became A CEO’ we had the pleasure of interviewing David Roche.

David Roche is a professional coach and mentor at Grey Area Coaching, and works with first-time CEOs across many sectors. David is Chair of London Book Fair and the writing agency New Writing North. He also works as a consultant with startups entering the book industry and lectures at NFTS. David was previously CEO of Borders & BOOKS etc, Product Director of both Waterstones and HMV, and Group Sales and Marketing Director of HarperCollins Publishing. He was also President of the Booksellers Association and a trustee of BookTrust. David has received several industry awards and in 2017 was awarded an Honorary Fellowship from the University of Central Lancashire for services to the UK book trade.

Passionately empowering the first-time CEO in his new book Become a Successful First-Time CEO, David has distilled decades of hands-on business leadership and coaching expertise into an accessible and strategic guide for those looking to thrive in the C-Suite.

Thank you so much for joining us in this interview series! Before we dig in, our readers would like to get to know you a bit more. Can you tell us a bit about your “backstory”? What led you to this particular career path?

I’ve worked on boards of international retailers, major publishers, trade associations, exhibition companies and literary charities as a President, Chair, CEO and exec director for nearly thirty years. Prior to that, I did a Psychology degree at Durham University and a professional qualification in Hypnotherapy. Qualifying as a professional coach 5 years ago took me back to my roots and made me a better non-exec director too. I enjoy seeing the next generations develop and believe we have a responsibility to support the leaders of today and develop the leaders of tomorrow.

Can you share the most interesting story that happened to you since you began leading your company?

Being a generalist, it took me a while to acknowledge that general management is a specialist skill and ditch the doubts that had accompanied the lack of a specialist toolkit. As a Chair now, this is much clearer and the value I bring as a jack of all trades is evident. For my roles as a consultant and as non-exec Chair of London Book Fair, I have widely relevant experience: I’ve been a senior board leader at the biggest book retailer (at the time) as well as a major global publisher, I’ve worked as a literary agent and as a published author, I can contribute from experience across all the facets of the industry.

Can you share a story about the funniest mistake you made when you were first starting? Can you tell us what lesson you learned from that?

I remember going to my first Waterstones Conference, attended by all the store managers, the majority of head office staff, senior representatives of the publishers and a smattering of star authors. The Conference and my speech had gone well and I thought the hard part was over. Before the gala dinner, I was being introduced to a few store managers who would tell me their name and the town their store was in. Then I was introduced to a lady: “… and this is Sarah Waters”. I replied “oh, and which store do you run?” only to be told she was the author of Fingersmith and several other of the nation’s favourite novels. I was mortified, especially as I had read and loved Fingersmith! Lesson 1. Do your homework — as product Director I should have known and researched the publisher and author attendees; Lesson 2. Make no assumptions whatsoever!

None of us are able to achieve success without some help along the way. Is there a particular person who you are grateful towards who helped get you to where you are? Can you share a story about that?

I am grateful to have learned key lessons from everyone I have worked with and had some pivotal relationships, both good and bad. The biggest learning is none of us is perfect and some of the best people who I have worked with who gave me a chance when it was a risk were also capable of some dreadful treatment too. Times change, along with what is acceptable. The lesson is to be consistent and be true to yourself — be the type of leader you wish to be rather than the type you perceive that leadership demands.

Leadership often entails making difficult decisions or hard choices between two apparently good paths. Can you share a story with us about a hard decision or choice you had to make as a leader?

When I was a board director I fell out with my MD over my non-delivery of an item that we had agreed on in the previous quarterly forecast. Instead, I had delivered what I believed to be the most important negotiation result the company was likely to achieve in a decade but had let the minor item slip — I considered it to be negligible by comparison. The resulting furore, and how I dealt with it, taught me massive amounts about relationships and how learning to communicate in others’ language was perhaps more critical than what you communicate. I backed down and changed my approach whereas my instinct was to continue to argue the case that I had already lost against a boss who would never back down. Withdrawing wisely while living to fight another day is a win.

Ok, thank you for that. Let’s now jump to the primary focus of our interview. Most of our readers — in fact, most people — think they have a pretty good idea of what a CEO or executive does. But in just a few words can you explain what an executive does that is different from the responsibilities of the other leaders?

Contrary to what people believe, the CEO does not run the company! They agree the strategy with the team and help define the culture and values but the day to day running of the company is deferred to their direct reports. The CEO is the conductor, with an individual relationship with everyone involved, setting the plan, creating the passion, controlling the timing, listening, and adapting. Interestingly, they are the only person not contributing to the sound — the performance the audience enjoys. They are there to ensure everyone else performs at their best together.

What are the “myths” that you would like to dispel about being a CEO or executive? Can you explain what you mean?

That the CEO is supremely confident and has all the answers! A first-time CEO may look confident but they may well be hiding all sorts of doubts about themselves. They have been selected from the shortlist so they are trying to live up to others’ expectations. Their outward armour of confidence may also make others feel that they require no help and would not welcome it. It’s a sign of genuine confidence to seek answers from others.

What is the most striking difference between your actual job and how you thought the job would be?

That I needed to have the best questions rather than all the answers!

Do you think everyone is cut out to be an executive? In your opinion, which specific traits increase the likelihood that a person will be a successful executive and what type of person should avoid aspiring to be an executive? Can you explain what you mean?

There is room for different types of leaders and the key is to have a balance across the senior leadership team. Always hire the best, and hire people who bring different qualities and skill sets to yourself. Managing the relationships is the key and that has endless variables and no correct formula. You have to have your head up and play what is in front of you.

What advice would you give to other business leaders to help create a fantastic work culture? Can you share a story or an example?

The ‘just treat your staff how you would like to be treated’ Richard Branson philosophy is probably the one to follow here. The example for all is current chair John Timpson and his eponymous company that has as its message ‘it’s all about you’ by which he means both the staff and customers. The management teams delegate authority but retain responsibility and have only two rules: 1. Look the part; 2. Put the money in the till. Of their 5,000 employees, approximately 10% are people with criminal convictions. They believe in giving people a second chance and don’t judge people on what they have done in the past, preferring instead to focus on what they can do in the future. This is walking the walk and genuinely being part of the community.

How have you used your success to make the world a better place?

I don’t think I have done enough of this but we all have to start somewhere. I have been a trustee and chair of literary charities for the last 19 years which deliver something I believe is massively beneficial to everyone. I also want tomorrow’s leaders to be better than today’s and I’m helping develop them. I carry out some pro bono coaching to try and make the publishing world more inclusive in every way, from ethnicity to class, to ability and varying life experiences.

What are your “Five Things I Wish Someone Told Me Before I Became A CEO” and why?

1 . Don’t wait until you have been given the stripes before you assume a level of control. I was passed over for my first general management role when I had been told it was going to be given to me. I didn’t solve problems that the acting incumbent had in the interim and answer the key question which is not ‘can they do the job’ but ‘can they be trusted to do the job’.

2 . You need to ensure that there is a transition plan which includes people, relationships and culture. McKinsey has estimated that $1 trillion p.a. of market value is lost from S&P’s top 1500 companies as a result of poorly planned transitions of CEOs and C-Suite people. You need to involve everybody and may have to slay some dragons early.

3 . Get an independent, professional coach and mentor. It’s lonely at the top and coaching isn’t just for new people with doubts but for experienced high achievers too. I was lucky enough to have an independent coach when I was made a CEO for the first time and having unconditional support and a safe person to unload to was invaluable.

4 . Ensure you have a relationship of trust and equality with the Chair and Board. They hired you as the best person for the job and want you to succeed. You don’t need to set off with imposter syndrome or FOBFO — Fear Of Being Found Out!

5 . A few bundled together here owing to the limitation of a list of five! Communicate, communicate, communicate — with that being two way and with all levels; look at the bigger picture rather than drowning in detail; make Change and a culture of managed risk-taking, the new norm (while communicating at all times…).

You are a person of great influence. If you could inspire a movement that would bring the most amount of good for the greatest number of people, what would that be? You never know what your idea can trigger.

I believe passionately that professional, independent coaching and mentoring should become compulsory for every first-time CEO. It’s a relatively minor investment but has a major long-term payback, both commercially and personally, that, in turn, shapes the next generation of leaders that the world needs.

Can you please give us your favorite “Life Lesson Quote”? Can you share how that was relevant to you in your life?

”If a man will begin with certainties, he shall end in doubts, but if he will be content to begin with doubts, he will end in certainties.”

Francis Bacon

Following the Dunning Kruger Effect, it is generally better for everyone if you tread lightly as you gather knowledge rather than plunge in with unwarranted confidence and dramatically fail. See Liz Truss…

We are very blessed that some very prominent names in Business, VC funding, Sports, and Entertainment read this column. Is there a person in the world, or in the US with whom you would love to have a private breakfast or lunch with, and why? He or she might just see this if we tag them

I think to be the Greatest of All Time at what you do and still need a coach and someone in your corner is really interesting. I would love to know exactly what the support brings to the party and why the GOATs value it. There is a fabulous photo of Tiger Woods being paired with Michael Jordan on the golf course with the latter puffing on a massive cigar that always makes me chuckle…

Thank you for these fantastic insights. We greatly appreciate the time you spent on this.

About the Interviewer: Douglas E. Noll, JD, MA was born nearly blind, crippled with club feet, partially deaf, and left-handed. He overcame all of these obstacles to become a successful civil trial lawyer. In 2000, he abandoned his law practice to become a peacemaker. His calling is to serve humanity, and he executes his calling at many levels. He is an award-winning author, teacher, and trainer. He is a highly experienced mediator. Doug’s work carries him from international work to helping people resolve deep interpersonal and ideological conflicts. Doug teaches his innovative de-escalation skill that calms any angry person in 90 seconds or less. With Laurel Kaufer, Doug founded Prison of Peace in 2009. The Prison of Peace project trains life and long terms incarcerated people to be powerful peacemakers and mediators. He has been deeply moved by inmates who have learned and applied deep, empathic listening skills, leadership skills, and problem-solving skills to reduce violence in their prison communities. Their dedication to learning, improving, and serving their communities motivates him to expand the principles of Prison of Peace so that every human wanting to learn the skills of peace may do so. Doug’s awards include California Lawyer Magazine Lawyer of the Year, Best Lawyers in America Lawyer of the Year, Purpose Prize Fellow, International Academy of Mediators Syd Leezak Award of Excellence, National Academy of Distinguished Neutrals Neutral of the Year. His four books have won a number of awards and commendations. Doug’s podcast, Listen With Leaders, is now accepting guests. Click on this link to learn more and apply.