The Business Side Of Law: Jeremy Gresham Of Levenfeld Pearlstein On 5 Things You Need To Create Or Lead A Successful Law Firm

Law school primarily prepares lawyers for the practice of law. But leading or starting a law firm requires so much more than that. It requires the entrepreneurial skills that any CEO would need to run a business; How to manage personnel, how to hire and fire, how to generate leads, how to advertise, how to manage finances, etc. On the business side of law, what does an attorney need to know to create a successful and thriving law practice? To address these questions, we are talking to successful law firm principals who can share stories and insights from their experience about the “5 Things You Need To Create Or Lead A Successful Law Firm”.

As a part of this series, we had the pleasure of interviewing Jeremy Gresham.

Jeremy Gresham is the Chief Executive Officer of Levenfeld Pearlstein. He is fostering the firm’s entrepreneurial spirit and business-centered approach to law firm management. He consistently identifies ways for LP to offer unique platforms in an effort for LP to thrive in a highly competitive industry. Jeremy brings more than 17 years of experience in law firm accounting, finance, and leadership to the role. He has been with the firm since 2015, serving most recently as Chief Financial Officer. In that time, he led the accounting and finance department through a sustained period of significant firm growth, developing and implementing new procedures and strategies to adapt and capitalize on growth while continuing to deliver a consistent and unparalleled client experience.

Thank you so much for joining us in this interview series !How did you begin working with law firms, law practices?

My first experience with law firms came as an auditor. I worked with Grant Thornton in Chicago and was assigned to audit Chapman and Cutler, LLP. I had crossed paths with them earlier as they represented Van Kampen Investments, another firm we’d audited. The following year, I was assigned to audit Lord Bissell & Brook, LLP (now Locke Lord). I had experience conducting audits for two law firms before I even thought about coming over to work for one. I had exposure to the inner workings and enlightening conversations with General Counsel about managing the numbers behind the law office curtain. I saw how complex these organizations were before I dipped my toe and joined Chapman and Cutler as an accounting manager in 2004.

What drew me into this industry segment was how different law firms are from other organizations, like manufacturers. They make products day in and day out, and it’s pretty much the same thing. From a business perspective, law firms offer a great deal of variety. Practice areas see different levels of activity over time, and new practice areas crop up. Two years ago, no one knew what a Payroll Protection Program (PPP) loan was, much less what the rules were on obtaining one, how it could be spent and how to file the paperwork. Laws change, and new ones come to life. It’s constantly changing and so interesting to me. I love being a part of it.

Have you had anybody mentor you, and who would they be? Whom would you consider, and what did you learn from them?

I have two mentors. The first one was Fred Weber. He was the administrative director at my first law firm job. He helped me understand my potential and career path. He had a background in public accounting and Human Resources. He earned his Master’s in Business Administration (MBA) and attended the U.S. Naval Academy. His willingness to share his unique, varied and successful experience helped me understand what it would take to achieve my professional aspirations. It became clear from our conversations that I would have to return to school and earn my MBA degree to advance to the level of Chief Executive Officer (CEO). We talk regularly, and I still seek his counsel.

My second mentor is the person I succeeded as CEO here at Levenfeld Pearlstein (LP), Angela Sebastian. I had the pleasure of working with her for over six years. She was always open to conversations about my career path and constantly challenged me with questions, “What do you want to do? Where do you want to go? Where do you see yourself?” I am very thankful for her. We worked closely together, and she gave me direct feedback on little mannerisms and my communication and presentation skills, particularly with the attorneys and staff. The other important dynamic I learned from Angie was about being a leader and dictating the pace at which meaningful conversations occur. It’s not so much about power as it is about timing that serves our attorneys and staff to the best of my ability. Her mentorship was critical to me. The feedback she provided was pivotal in my success. It has enabled me to assume the role of CEO after she retired.

Can you share a story about one of your greatest struggles? Can you share what you did to overcome it?

My greatest struggle was deciding to leave Chapman and Cutler after eight and a half years. I loved working there. I think they’re great people. I’m still close to many individuals there, but I realized I wasn’t being pushed. Over time, I knew what needed to be done. I just wasn’t feeling challenged.

It was time to make a change and further my career, and I had this frightening realization: it was time to go big or go home. I took a job as controller of a larger law firm in Denver to get more experience, exposure, and the title on my resume. It was a dramatic move for my whole family. I took what I knew from eight and a half years, turned it on its head, and moved 16 hours away. I did this knowing that the legal industry is very small. Everyone you deal with today will probably come around again sometime in the future. Your reputation is your calling card and will stick with you. It follows you wherever you go.

The other significant move I made was enrolling in an MBA program. I knew it was imperative for my career aspirations, I had no choice. I was working full-time as CFO for a rapidly growing law firm and helping raise our family, so furthering my education would have to exist in an already busy world. This would mean giving up every Saturday and Thursday night for the next 18 months to earn my degree. At the time, it was a tough decision. I’ve never looked back on it, and I have benefitted from it in numerous ways.

I had the support of my employer’s executive team. I don’t think that would’ve necessarily happened at other law firms, but LP was onboard. They wanted me to succeed because they knew that my success was good for their success.

It’s not easy work that you’re doing. What’s your primary motivation and drive behind what you do?

Every day brings new challenges. In my position, the learning never stops. At various times, I have to develop new policies to keep up with the ever-changing demands of creating a beneficial work-life balance. For example, I made parental leave policies. We had to learn about and determine if PPP was right for us. We’re moving to an ample space next year that we are in the process of designing. Now, I’m motivated to learn about construction programs. There’s always an opportunity to learn about something new. Situations can pop up where I must pivot quickly and help determine the most advantageous outcome for the firm.

What are some of the most exciting or interesting projects you’re working on now?

I think our move is the biggest project right now. We’ve been in our current location for 20 years. We get to take a blank space and make it into what LP needs.
I’m in the process of maximizing the things that our employees said they care about most. Having access to sunlight and good acoustics are paramount. Our goal is to create the best space that we can for the future of the firm.

Can you tell us about, we’re going to say, the nature of your work and what you’re focused on?

My focus is on taking away the distractions of running the law firm away from its owners. I want to keep as much of their focus as possible on law practice. Our goal is to have our attorneys focused on their clients and not distracted by running the business side of a law firm. I don’t want my Executive Counsel to stay up late at night, thinking, “What are we going to do with the website? What are we going to do with our insurance renewals? What are we going to do with all of the things you need to run a successful law firm?” But I want them to feel like I’m taking care of those things so they can concentrate on, “What are the legal issues or what are the opportunities we have to expand or broaden the attorney base of the firm?”

I can’t necessarily tell the Executive Committee what type of attorney we need or who makes the best attorney, but I can show them what good and bad attorneys do financially. I can highlight the differences, and I can come to them early on and show them, “These are some bad habits I’m seeing. These are some things I would be concerned about.” So hopefully, we can correct them before they become more significant issues.

What three-character traits do you think are instrumental to your success, and what unique qualities do you have that others may not? And can you give us an example for each?

One thing that I’ve been told repeatedly is that I exude a sense of calm. As a leader, you will hear things that can either make you really happy or upset, but you can’t allow your emotions to control you. This is true even if it’s the worst news you’ve heard, and you want to scream and yell; you really can’t as a leader. It’s hard to work for, or with someone who thinks everything is always great or every day is the worst day in their life. As a leader, you have to internalize some of your emotions a little bit and project calmness.

Personal integrity matters a lot. That means when you say you’re going to do something, you do it. You can build trust with people when they know your word is your bond. When you ask someone how they’re doing, you also mean it and provide your undivided attention to them. Sometimes you’ll hear things from your staff that they prefer would remain private, but there are times when concerns must be shared. It’s tough, but you’ll have to tell them, “That’s something that doesn’t get to stay between you and I.” There are times as a leader when you must act on situations that make you uncomfortable or things that might upset someone, but you know that you’re doing it for the firm’s best interest.

It is important not to take things personally. People may be mad about an issue. You may be the face of that issue. You must be willing to hear people out and let them go through the different stages and emotions they will have. Their issue may be about other matters. they are dealing with. Allowing people space to direct their feelings provides a safe place to communicate what is happening to them. People aren’t robots. They’re going to have good days and bad days. It’s beneficial to provide them space to deal with their feelings. Understand everyone is coming from a different place in their life. You may not have the same experiences that they do. Different viewpoints are good. You don’t want a firm where the people are the same, because you will miss out on a good idea here and there.
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People who have worked with you for a long time know what you’re about and what you stand for. If you try to be someone different, people are going to know. I’d rather be my authentic self than try to be someone different. I find presenting a sense of calm, understanding, and focusing on the issues and not on personalities provides an opportunity to find solutions in a shorter timeframe. Some people just aren’t going to get along, but if you talk about the issues more than the personalities, I think you can be more successful.

Do you think where you went to school has a bearing on your success, and how important is it for somebody in your position to attend a top-tier school?

Where you went to school has the most influence when starting. I was fortunate to go to Indiana University. They had a real focus on student placement and bringing companies into campus. The university acted as a partner in getting you your first job. It proved to be a great system. A college wants as many of its graduates to be placed as possible. They want good companies to come in. Where you went to school has a bearing on your maybe first two or three jobs. But I think it doesn’t have as much of a bearing after that. I don’t think one particular university or group of schools makes you any more successful at this job than any other.

You have to balance the books basically and the practice of law. So, how do you manage both of those together?

My biggest challenge is understanding the practice of law without trying to tell people how to practice law. My natural ability is being a former CFO and a trained accountant. Yet, I have to show that I understand both. I have to at least be able to have a conversation in general on the day-to-day practice of law but not get ahead of myself and think that I can dispense legal advice because I can’t and shouldn’t. I can balance the books. I can do all those necessary functions, but I also need to show that I understand, “What are the issues with our technology or what are the issues with conflicts that the attorneys are facing?

Most importantly, when it’s a law practice issue versus a financial issue, it’s vital to remember that we are running a business. I effectively report to the many equity partners of the firm. I want to make the best decisions I can for those owners because they’re the ones who have invested capital. They’re the ones who are looking to me to make business decisions about how the firm runs. I’m looking long-term. What is the best for the business? What keeps LP going 5, 10 years from now?

It’s important not to be shortsighted, “What’s the best move for us today?” Situations arise where we could maximize revenue this year, but it may mean we have an issue or a problem that we’re going to have to deal with two or three years down the road. What keeps the firm going versus what’s the best thing for everyone today? It’s not always the same answer.

What entrepreneurial skills do you need to run a successful law firm and what entrepreneurial skills do attorneys need to be successful in the practice of law?

I think the biggest thing in my role is to be willing to learn and admit that you don’t know everything. For example, I must interface with the marketing department, the professional development team, and the talent managers and understand what they need. It’s being as well-rounded as you can. My background is in finance. I could geek out about finance all day. That doesn’t help the firm if I don’t understand how to resolve conflicts or how client intake works.

The entrepreneurial part is about being well-rounded and willing to keep learning and connecting with and trusting people to bring out the best of themselves to help you. Any great organization is the sum of the parts, not one piece. For a lawyer, if I’m telling someone fresh out of law school how they can succeed in the business side of law, I tell them to focus on their clients. A good client is someone who respects the work you do and values the advice that they give you. And if the client is hammering you about how much you charge and how much time it takes you to do everything, even though those are dollars in the door, those aren’t the best dollars in the door. The hardest thing for attorneys is understanding; not every dollar of revenue is a good dollar of revenue. If the client is so demanding that you can’t keep them staffed or happy, then maybe it’s not the right client for you. It’s difficult for a young attorney striving to become a partner and owner of the firm to walk away from clients.

How much time do you think attorneys should be spending on the business side of their practice?

I don’t know that there’s a definitive amount, like 10%, 20%, 30%, but I think attorneys should be looking at, “Where am I spending most of my time? Who am I spending most of my time working with or working for? Who am I developing?” I mean this from a mentoring and growth, and a teaching perspective. There are limits attorneys must consider; I can only take as much work as possible and can control. The idea is that you have a book of business defined by how well you can serve the clients. The biggest thing I can point out to someone is that you should always try to develop another.

If you’re good at client relationships and specialize in a specific industry sector, you should want to mentor and grow someone else to be just like you. This is top tier thinking at the firm level. This is one of the key elements in building a successful practice. Law practice professionals say, “This is a fantastic client. How do we get another client like this?” And the attorney’s answer will be, “Well, I can’t do two clients like that. I don’t have enough time.” If that’s the answer, then you know the knowledge garnered from being successful with one client is not appropriately leveraged by the firm. Find your best client and figure out how you can have two of them.

Any insights on the following as the leader of the firm that may be stuff you don’t hear? These are thoughts that you have that are maybe different than everybody else’s that you could share with us.

• Managing personnel

My philosophy is that you need to think about the other person before you think about yourself. What is their background? What is their experience? What’s the issue at hand? I think a lot of people are too quick to focus on themselves and project onto someone else. I’m someone who’s driven and wants to strive; you can’t project that onto someone else. Even though someone may be super talented and you’re like, “I think you have management potential, and you want to do all these great things,” and you see so much of yourself in them, you have to ask them, “What do you want? Where do you want to go?” When managing personnel, you have to listen to what you’re being told and not try to make someone do something they don’t want to do because you’re going to upset them, and you’re probably worse off in the end. For example, I had an accounts payable employee working for me. He could have managed any group of people but didn’t want the responsibility. He wanted to clock out at 5:00, go home, and not think about work after regular business hours.

• Hiring and firing

I’m a big believer in the Jim Collins’ concept of rigorous, not ruthless. When you’re at the point where you have to separate someone from the firm, the people around them usually will let you know. If you’re in a team of six people, everyone knows who the person is that isn’t doing their fair share. Also, when you’re at the point that you’re deciding whether to let someone go, if you think not firing them is going to cause someone else to leave, you have to consider who is an A player or B player. Then your decisions are made for you because everybody knows who’s not carrying their weight. If keeping someone means you’re going to lose someone significant, then you have a clear decision.

On hiring, it’s imperative to take your time. Going back to the projection on managing personnel, try not to fall in love with people. You’re looking at their resume and are on the phone with them for a couple of minutes. All of a sudden, you see them as the greatest thing ever. Slow yourself down a little bit. Even if you know you need this person because you’re thinking as soon as I hire them, everything else will be better. Just be careful that you’re not projecting something they’re not because if you hire the wrong person, that’s a disaster. I’ve learned that the hard way. I brought someone in. They lasted 90 days, and I won’t ever do that again. So, I’d rather go slow than go fast in hiring.

• Generating leads

The best thing to do is build your network, and you’ll be surprised how many opportunities you can generate. I’m not going out and speaking at conferences or writing legal articles. That’s not my role. Over the years, I developed an extensive network of bankers and people who have worked at other law firms. I received work for the firm this year based on my networking abilities.

• Advertising

This is in the same vein as networking. We work in a specialized industry of legal administration; this is where we are creating our network with marketing and IT professionals, not just legal experts. I suggest belonging to trade organizations, as well. Building a solid reputation is the most effective advertising. Word of mouth from others is the best advertising that money can’t buy. Talking about all the good things that are going on at our firm is a way to control and spread your key messages to target audiences.

Let’s say two firms merge, and an accounts payable person is going to be laid off. You can help your firm’s reputation by going on offense to help your employee. You can help them find work and recommend them to a company seeking an Accounts Payable professional. This is a way to manage and leverage your firm’s reputation on the staff side, and it also works on the attorney side. People hear good things about your firm. That’s the best advertisement.

• Managing finances

Having a long-term view is the most important factor in managing finances. There’s a phrase that many people use with clients that says, “Taking every dollar off the table.” If you did a piece of work and didn’t feel like it was your best work product and the client pushes back a bit, provide a discount or admit to it. Being honest and willing to admit that we didn’t do our best. If you are so focused on maximizing today and say, “No, the price is the price,” the client may not return to you the next time.
Think about sustaining a long-term relationship.” That’s the best thing you can do and will pay off in the future. If they’re a good client and they come back, then that’s great. Growing your relationship with a client is better and more accessible than finding new ones.

Five things attorneys need to do in order to create a successful and thriving law practice? And you need example, please, for each.

The first thing you need to do is know what your practice is going to focus on. You may be hyperspecialized or general, but you need to know what your practice groups or areas of law will be. You can’t add things that you don’t understand and be successful. We’re a corporate, real estate, trust, and estate-focused law firm. We don’t know about healthcare. A 20-attorney healthcare group coming to us and saying they want to join LP doesn’t make sense.

You have to evaluate opportunities based on your strengths. I think the next thing would be that as your workforce becomes more diverse in generational expansion, you must be willing to change your policies to adapt to the new generation. Here’s a practical perspective, “This is what I got when I was your age,” or “This is what the policy was.” Times change. You must be willing to go with the times and not hold a grudge because maybe parental leave is more generous now than it was back when I had my kids. You can’t think about, “Well, this is not fair. Look how much more…” The marketplace has changed over time, and you must be willing to evolve.

Being as transparent as possible is important. I don’t think you can run a successful law firm by hiding everything. It doesn’t mean you have to be open about what everyone gets paid, but I think a lot of the actual numbers of how well the firm is doing should be shared. Opening the books up as much as you can is beneficial. We have an open compensation system for our equity partners. They know what each other makes. This doesn’t mean that the paralegals or the associates know what the equity partners make. Transparency is effective because they also see the statistics that support where those people are at. They can understand the difference.

It’s necessary to have hard conversations with people. If you are not good at it, find someone in the firm that is and employ their abilities. Many people are afraid to criticize or give honest feedback, but people need feedback to do better. Going back to the example with the former CEO, Angie, and saying, I listened to myself once. If she hadn’t told me that, “I sounded like a jerk. It’s just a little affectation that I didn’t even notice I was doing, but she was willing to sit me down and say, “Hey, did you ever notice that you do this?” And I was like, “Oh, my gosh. Now that you say it, all I think about is that.” It’s not done to be mean. The comments are made to be helpful, not hurtful. I think that’s where many people miss the boat. You can have tough conversations without being a jerk if it’s in the spirit of helping someone grow. It should never be something they can’t change or benefit from changing.

Invest in your people, challenge them to do things, learn new things, and work on professional development. We’re big believers in coaching, training, and self-development. People can learn new skills and understand how to do things they didn’t think possible. We have a lot of people in the firm that have coaches.
I had a communications coach. Who helped me with varying my tone, delivery, and eye contact. You want to make people better than they are today. You want to encourage them to find opportunities; it should be limited to things that will help their professional development. If someone tells you, “I’m going to go learn all I can about the laws of lobbying,” but we don’t have a lobbying practice, that doesn’t make any sense. You should work with people on achieving their goals by offering developmental support.

You’re a person of great influence. If you could inspire a movement that would bring the most amount of good to the most people, what would it be?

The division between lawyers and their support staff needs to come down. Non-lawyer is a banned term at LP. We’re all people here to do the best that we can for LP. It shouldn’t matter that I went to law school or I didn’t go to law school. The practice of law has created this barrier that doesn’t need to be there. The best thing that could happen to the legal industry is that no one ever says lawyer and non-lawyer again because I think it diminishes the contribution of the people who support the practice of law.

At a well-run law firm, the attorneys can focus on the practice of law and the needs of their client, which means they trust and respect the people running the marketing department, the PR department, the IT department, and so on. It should be more about mutual respect than, “I’m an owner. You’re not an owner. I’m an attorney. You’re not an attorney.” Everyone who works for a law firm brings skills and abilities that hopefully make the firm better. You’re minimizing other people’s roles by throwing up that definitional boundary. I don’t understand why.

This was very inspiring. Thank you so much for the time you spent with this. We wish you continued success and good health!

About the Interviewer: Eric L. Pines is a nationally recognized federal employment lawyer, mediator, and attorney business coach. He represents federal employees and acts as in-house counsel for over fifty thousand federal employees through his work as a federal employee labor union representative. A formal federal employee himself, Mr. Pines began his federal employment law career as in-house counsel for AFGE Local 1923 which is in Social Security Administration’s headquarters and is the largest federal union local in the world. He presently serves as AFGE 1923’s Chief Counsel as well as in-house counsel for all FEMA bargaining unit employees and numerous Department of Defense and Veteran Affairs unions.

While he and his firm specialize in representing federal employees from all federal agencies and in reference to virtually all federal employee matters, his firm has placed special attention on representing Veteran Affairs doctors and nurses hired under the authority of Title. He and his firm have a particular passion in representing disabled federal employees with their requests for medical and religious reasonable accommodations when those accommodations are warranted under the Rehabilitation Act of 1973 (ADA). He also represents them with their requests for Federal Employee Disability Retirement (OPM) when an accommodation would not be possible.

Mr. Pines has also served as a mediator for numerous federal agencies including serving a year as the Library of Congress’ in-house EEO Mediator. He has also served as an expert witness in federal court for federal employee matters. He has also worked as an EEO technical writer drafting hundreds of Final Agency Decisions for the federal sector.

Mr. Pines’ firm is headquartered in Houston, Texas and has offices in Baltimore, Maryland and Atlanta, Georgia. His first passion is his wife and five children. He plays classical and rock guitar and enjoys playing ice hockey, running, and biking. Please visit his websites at www.pinesfederal.com and www.toughinjurylawyers.com. He can also be reached at eric@pinesfederal.com.