Sasha Laghonh of Sasha Talks: The Collaboration Test That Separates True Value Creators From Self-Serving Operators

In the United States in 2022, fields such as Aircraft piloting, Agriculture, Architecture, Construction, Finance, and Information technology, are still male-dominated industries. For a woman who is working in a male-dominated environment, what exactly does it take to thrive and succeed? In this interview series, we are talking to successful women who work in a Male-Dominated Industry who can share their stories and experiences about navigating work and life as strong women in a male-dominated industry. As a part of this series, we had the distinct pleasure of interviewing Sasha Laghonh.

Sasha is a Founder and Entrepreneur of an educational and entertainment platform that integrates self & professional development into nurturing meaningful outcomes. As a speaker, mentor and author, she partners alongside different clients, from individuals to organizations, to capitalize upon their talent. She is the host in residence for KreativeCircle.com and Global Ambassador for Style My Soul, a Lifestyle & Interests Community. To learn more, please visit www.sashatalks.com.

Thank you so much for doing this with us! Before we dig in, our readers would like to get to know you a bit more. Can you tell us a bit about your childhood “backstory”?

I’ve been contributing to the business realm for over twenty years in different capacities by working for private and high profile entities along my career path. Different roles and different missions accompanied with distinct outcomes. Sasha Talks was initially founded as an extension to supplement my creative endeavors and provisions. Over the years it’s developed a layered identity through the few verticals that reflect niche business services on a global platform. It’s the only corner where I’ve been able to tap within self and professional development without any constraints while becoming of service to a broader market.

Can you tell us the story about what led you to this particular career path?

Prior to pursuing a career in business, I initially planned to attend medical school to become a pediatrician. I wasn’t interested in becoming a general practitioner, instead I had my heart set on studying respiratory diseases and terminal illnesses among children. Since I was already vested in working with children through other professional channels, I reconsidered my options. While exploring other career paths, I took a few business courses in high school which sparked an interest to dive deeper into the fields of economics and statistics. I started my relationship with business at a young age prior to formal academic and professional training. It’s going strong as I’ve been able to conceptualize, create and build things where I can apply my overall skill sets on a global level through online and offline commitments. Sasha Talks is one of the ventures that was born to accommodate a business and personal need focusing on performance enhancement. It has evolved into a platform that delivers services through integrating educational and entertaining content to engage audiences.

Can you share the most interesting story that happened to you since you began your career?

Extracting any specific anecdote from the memory lane is hard. I can say I’ve crossed paths with many different personalities representing unique lifestyles. It’s a blessing in disguise. It has opened me up to experiences and thus growth which takes time. I’ve been able to entertain social and learning adventures by visiting chicken farms, partaking parasailing and skydiving, making culinary dishes with renowned chefs, working with nonprofits for special events, hosting silent auctions, visiting foreign work sites on behalf of production companies, launching business missions which require a significant headcount…the list goes on. My relationship with learning, risk and personnel management has evolved in the process. Open yourself to healthy opportunities, one never knows where the next seed of inspiration will come from!

You are a successful business leader. Which three character traits do you think were most instrumental to your success? Can you please share a story or example for each?

Collaboration — Develop yourself because working well with others is a trait that is either valued greatly in some business environments, or it’s naively discounted in others. Collaborations present opportunities to meet people, learn from one another as well create future prospective opportunities together. It’s a healthy outlet to season our existing perspective with new information that can help us perform and contribute better. Collaborations serve as a two way street so abandon the ‘me, me, me’ and ‘take, take’ mentality when considering these positive opportunities. Apply discretion before saying yes. Not every collaboration is meant for you.

Speaking Up — There is a difference between speaking with purpose versus creating noise for the sake of attention. Speaking up is a process because we’re tasked by life to assess our values for how we want to function in major aspects of our life. When we refrain from speaking up when there is a need, we start going against ourselves thus nurturing the seeds of resentment within ourselves.

Decisiveness — Know yourself to leverage opportunities in a timely manner. Indecisiveness as a lifestyle trait is horrible to host generally in life. We aren’t expected to know all the answers. Being indecisive situationally is okay. Decisiveness is a commendable trait because it communicates respect for other peoples’ bandwidth in regards to their time, energy and resources. An insecure individual or one lacking confidence will struggle with making effective decisions that honor the mission in front of them. Their lack of awareness will burden those around them when their participation is needed to function.

Ok, thank you for that. Let’s now jump to the primary focus of our interview. Can you help articulate a few of the biggest obstacles or challenges you’ve had to overcome while working in a male-dominated industry?

Sometimes we women need to extend ourselves to extreme degrees to be heard in a professional environment. This is not always true because this is dictated by the people managing the organization and the work culture in general. I’ve encountered less competent men given a pass for producing mediocre deliverables while my delivery stood the test of time thanks to a very critical panel that reviewed my work. I’ve experienced male colleagues only making eye contact with other men when discussing ideas while discounting the presence of any women standing before them. I’ve also seen poor management by male CEOs who have falsely projected their progressive agendas by situating women in roles that would cease the moment the CEO is out the door. Some organizations have truly made me question whether they understand the role of a woman and her attributes as a professional contributor instead of hiring a metaphorical armpiece to push an initiative. Being cut off when speaking is a very rare occurrence for me but when it happens, I’m unapologetic to correct the chauvinist offender. Most women can tell when it’s an act of malice versus an innocent misstep.

Once upon a time I attended a final round of an interview for an Sr. HR Executive role when the male executive decided to ask only one question in the FINAL meeting — “What will become of you when you’re married and you have children?” I smiled and waited for him to continue profiling me through a string of questions that I didn’t care to answer. I’ve reached a point where I can confidently sit in silence and not be bothered by such nonsense. This usually unsettles men. When they start making sense, I then resume to engage them. The questions had nothing to do with the legal needs of the organization. I don’t believe every executive in the Oil & Gas industry is tone deaf to reality (but) it made sense why this male CEO was sued by a woman of color (a direct report) when she announced her pregnancy as a courtesy & for business planning purposes. This female had gone from a celebrated rock star performer to a ‘has been’ overnight due to her personal lifestyle choices. He was sued and then ousted by his former employer, including the Board, prior to him transitioning into the next Oil & Gas entity (into a right wing-man position) where he and I crossed paths by chance. And that is all it was — a chance meeting. I informed the appropriate parties that this colorful personality had obviously not learned anything from the previous high profile lawsuit that cost him the CEO position.

I accept and respect that most people are set in their ways. I have no interest in signing up as a preacher to change people. I’m not in the babysitting business. What you see is what you get. When the student is ready, they’ll seek me out. This subject matter wasn’t exhibiting any signs of wanting to change. Being able to see life in its raw form has made it much easier for me to make business decisions by cutting through the fluff. In hindsight, I’m glad it didn’t work out because I had a reputable law firm seek my services about two months after that incident. What if he recognizes himself in this anecdote? I doubt he would because women are expected to be at home in the kitchen flipping those pancakes to feed their children. Good women spend time grazing the fields, not narrating their anecdotes for learning purposes!

When change is needed and a human resource(s) proves itself to be inept, women can raise concerns with the appropriate Federal, State, County and City sources to draw attention to professional entities failing to accommodate fair & just labor practices. As a vetted professional and advisor who regularly collaborates with legal entities, there reside serious ramifications for negligent policies and behaviors which put women at a disadvantage. Speaking up has its merits but there is no guarantee that immediate results will unfold because time has to serve as an ally to investigate these situations. It’s only a matter of time justice is served. Actions, or lack of actions, speak louder than words. When companies fail their employees, legitimate third parties step in to resolve matters that are exhibited consistently over a period of time.

Men are granted a pass when they offend but when women speak up for the right reasons, their presence is questioned. I’ve had men put words in my mouth and they have learned the hard way that it is the stupidest thing for men to do when working alongside women who can hold their own. Women need to confront these behaviors immediately on the spot because 99% of the time these offenders are left baffled with no rebuttal. I know this from experience. They need to be reminded what coexistence means regardless of their role in these professional engagements. We women also need to be mindful that some women in the workplace are enablers of these bad behaviors therefore do not expect every woman to advocate your cause for healthy changes in the workplace. Not all human resources function as competent entities within an organization. Regardless of the demographics within these HR units, I’ve witnessed unqualified men and women that attract more liabilities instead of providing solutions to real-time personnel management inquiries and concerns. After having co-existed with male and female HR professionals who lack credence, repeating hearsay (without vetting whether it is legal rhetoric & kosher protocol), organizations fail to understand the difference before a D grade coach & a licensed professional that oversees sensitive cases. Many people host credentials in different fields yet fail to learn how to apply them. Therefore blindly trusting people repeating buzzwords and niche cliches doesn’t make the cut. Fire them before the organization is coerced into testifying against their employees who weren’t qualified to work the roles in the first place.

On a side note, a mismanaged remote human resources can invite more problems if the wrong people are working these roles because they fail to grasp the true essence of HUMAN resources. A remote human resources professional will not be able to assess the seriousness of cases involving — varying degrees of microgressions, sexual harassment, discrimination, bullying, fraudulent activities and initimidation tactics; e.g. These deviant behaviors can occur online and offline. If an organization’s HR is dismissive of such complaints from their employees in general, documenting these occurrences in writing / audio / video and multimedia serve as leverage. I’ve witnessed the worst occurrences when organizations discount nice people to be oblivious of their rights. I recall when a female human resource professional commented that she was asked to look into a matter but her decades worth of experience (and lack of good sense) failed her when she chose to be negligent to protect the employee in question. Instead the case was handled by an outside counsel and senior government entities.

I’m optimistic that positive changes can develop and unfold over time in working environments greatly influenced by men. I’ve met more men advocating for better workplace treatment when they have witnessed other men mistreating their staff in general. A workplace educational reform is needed to improve such gender disparities in the workplace. Providing sexual harassment and general employee trainings are not sufficient. People aren’t seeking lip service. They want sustainable results in personnel management. Positive changes are born from ‘very very’ uncomfortable conversations when exploring the professional evolution of men and women in business. Become proactive in developing these changes. Ignoring these red flags will only land negligent companies answering to federal and state agencies, attorney generals, law firms, social groups and plaintiffs expecting lasting change.

When an organization starts exhibiting the vibe, ‘she should be lucky that we even gave her a seat at the table’, shrug it off and go create your own table! The irony is when I’ve gone out to create my own initiatives, I mysteriously developed a male following over the years. Being contacted by men in the NFL, NBA, Forbes Top 100 and personalities unbeknownst to me is humbling. Such developments still leave me baffled in a good way because it has also opened doors for competent women to join me on the mission of sharing powerful messages. Historically, 95% of my experiences have been positive when working in male centric environments over the decades. When bad behaviors are left unchecked because human resources and other men enable one another, then women are encouraged to take matters into their own hands to settle these transgressions. There are good men out there who know how to nurture better working environments. Unfortunately, the few that are bad are very bad BUT karma eventually takes care of them.

Can you share a few of the things you have done to gain acceptance among your male peers and the general work community? What did your female co-workers do? Can you share some stories or examples?

When it comes to earning merit, it doesn’t matter if it’s a woman or man, the person still needs to invest themselves in producing their merit. I operate the same way wherever I am invited to engage — be myself and respect the environment. I am contributing as a human being, not a woman or through a barrage of labels. If the ambiance is toxic, I know to remove myself. If I can’t respect how they operate then I need to remove myself ASAP. Life is too short to put up with unnecessary stresses. Unfortunately I’ve frequented two places that functioned as sub-standard entities where the CEO did not care about the harassment people endured in general. One of the CEOs lacked self-awareness to the point that he enabled his staff by laughing at their harassing comments towards me — he was eventually pushed out by the higher ups because he lacked legit business acumen. It seems some people don’t know how to manage the indoors nor the outdoors — their bad manners go wherever they go.

What do you think male-oriented organizations can do to enhance their recruiting efforts to attract more women?

Before acting upon any recruiting efforts, they should evaluate what organizational initiatives exist to support & welcome female talents. There are companies that still lack protocol for overall personnel engagement for fair representation of all employees in the workplace. Having a prop-up HR, HR policies, a General Counsel and a company handbook doesn’t protect any real company if they lack the true knowledge of how to build and nurture a strong workforce. They still host a high risk for attracting internal legal issues . Companies should reflect upon their history, lessons learned with male and female engagement in companies and create guidelines & enforcement policies that represent ALL people regardless of gender and labels. I personally entertain roles that are worked by men and women so it’s not a gender-centric issue for me. It helps when recruiting organizations are transparent about their media and PR content which may include on-going lawsuits related to labor & workforce issues. Avoiding these questions from job candidates creates bad press through word of mouth. For example, when a company is sued for unfair treatment of colored women, beware when the recruiting efforts are only focused on shopping around for colored women to appease the company’s conscience. Money makes people do crazy things. The loss of money also makes people, and organizations, do crazy things to restore their ego.

Ok thank you for all of that. Here is the main question of our interview. Based on your opinion and experience, what are the “Five Things You Need To Thrive and Succeed as a Woman In a Male-Dominated Industry?” (Please share a story or example for each.)

1. Speak Up — Call a Spade for a Spade. Be civil, not antagonistic about it. This removes the “noise” of people projecting their perception of you back onto you. Do not hide behind other mouths. Do not let others put words in your mouth. If they can’t stand up to you face to face, or take accountability otherwise — nix them. Speaking up is a virtue, no one said it’s easy. Speaking up for the right reasons, not to stroke one’s ego. Also do not ever apologize for speaking your truth. Make sure to instill humanity in your truth because we are still people with a heart. Keep the — going jersey — card tucked under your sleeve but refrain from using it. When people lose everything in life and allow people to discount their truth, they lose it. To quote Chanda Kaushik, “Society has become so fake that the truth bothers people.”
2. Do Not Apologize For Who You Are . This includes your personality, values, weaknesses and your success. Only apologize when you are genuinely sorry and wrong pertaining to a situation, not because women are expected to blindly follow expected protocols. Make your words count when they matter.
3. Be Yourself. Trading one’s feminine characteristics for an identity or power among men is questionable judgment. Refrain from acting like wallflowers waiting to be saved. At times, women are the same people complaining about how they are treated. A few are guilty of becoming victims of their own negligence. Before accusing men of bad behaviors in the workplace, women need to also acknowledge there exists questionable characters among our population that require attention. Predatory men make the news in a heartbeat while predatory women also linger among the masses. We’re living in the age where both genders are walking on eggshells in most workplaces. It’s good in a sense that it forces awareness among us how to engage one another. On the other hand, political correctness and streams of woke mania cloud healthy collaborations among both groups with the fear we’ll be socially ‘ticketed’ for saying or doing the wrong thing. Karma catches up with the legitimate offenders of deviant behavior sooner or later. To clarify, respectful differences in opinion do not equate to deviant behaviors. We’re human beings first. Live and let live without imposing ideologies upon one another.
4. Focus on developing a better version of yourself. I’m a work in progress so I can’t stress this point beyond encouraging people to take healthy risks to grow in a positive manner. There is no fool proof way of getting through life without any disappointments when it comes to people, material gains & losses, acts of nature and figuring out how to trust life when it unfolds contrary to our man-made blueprint.
5. Remember why you started your professional journey in the first place. There are plenty of seasoned women in business that manage high ranking careers in different fields. Part of their success is due to leveraging collaborations and mentorship opportunities with other ambitious women. Women with experience are great resources when it comes to learning how to develop ourselves while managing our overall life priorities better. My female mentors reside within the academic, political, commercial and non-profit realm. In hindsight, I’ve professionally partnered in management & leadership with more female executives than men in male-dominated industries and male-dominated organizations. This speaks for my partnerships in the government, political, legal and commercial sectors. It’s important to screen collaborative opportunities that align with one’s goals instead of coming together for the sake of gender. Such realities also demand us women to grow a thicker skin because society has a bad habit of plotting women against one another for entertainment purposes. From observation, a third of the time this plague is planted by men and insecure people wanting to destabilize strong forces in the making. If you encounter any person or third parties trying to gain your favor by creating such hiccups, throw them out. You are more than enough. You can validate yourself rather than keeping fake entourages around. I believe the right women who have invested and earned their merit understand this message. In Maya Angelou’s words, become a ‘phenomenal woman’.

If you had a close woman friend who came to you with a choice of entering a field that is male-dominated or female-dominated, what would you advise her? Would you advise a woman friend to start a career in a field or industry that’s traditionally been mostly men? Can you explain what you mean?

Gender domination wouldn’t matter to me much when advising them although it would be a topic I’d touch upon because different industries, in varying degrees, still host significant growing pains when welcoming women into their boardroom, their management, business planning, financial investments, etc. These hurdles still exist in some organizations more than others because it’s contingent upon the people trusted to manage the organization. I would advise them to conduct their due diligence in respect to the organization’s operational effectiveness and personnel initiatives. Speak to women working at these companies instead of relying on their human resources and communications team ‘pushing’ a sales agenda to recruit women. It’s rare that trusted sources at these companies will disclose any gender disparities and concerns that exist within their brand unless there are lingering media reports shining light on their business practices.

I’ve encountered male dominated industries and organizations that are represented by an all female management for the sake of ‘marketing’ an all female leadership which ultimately results in an operational disaster (and a short lived PR win) because not enough qualified women were vetted to contribute to the genuine cause of running a business at face value. It’s important to question the recruiting and hiring decisions, in general, to assess whether the best candidate is being hired, or whether there exists ulterior motives to reach a diverse headcount for shock value to imply progressiveness. It’s important when women are hired, they are hired as a human being representing many professional values rather than a gender label because it will, sooner or later, put them in a vulnerable position which discredits their production value and earning power. In such cases, they are used as pawns to visually convey an unspoken organizational agenda. It is only a matter of time they will be removed from the organization when a more keen management enters the picture. It’s important when women are hired, they are granted a fair chance to earn their merit without the distractions of work politics and questionable social initiatives. Not all women fall prey to these scenarios because the competent ones are harder to recruit when their monetary and non-monetary asks are in lock step if not greater than men in the competitive job market. I know from observation and experience.

Have you seen things change for women working in male-dominated industries, over the past ten years? How do you anticipate that it might improve in the future? Can you please explain what you mean?

There are companies that have evolved enough to engage their employees in learning what their staff as a whole values. It varies from place to place, these interests can range from generous paternity leave to flexible scheduling benefits that advocate women (and men) to invest their paid time towards social team-building and charitable engagements. I believe organizations have their radars out for learning how to improve their general relationship with the workforce. There is always a third party that can do a better job genuinely offering employees perks without shaming them for these earned privileges. We live in the times where adults are also confused between needs and wants. Not all needs and definitely not all wants will be met through an employer. We need to remain realistic about our ‘asks’ given the price we’re willing to invest for these things. Women are seeking equal treatment, not preferential treatment.

We are very blessed that some very prominent names in Business, VC funding, Sports, and Entertainment read this column. Is there a person in the world, or in the US with whom you would love to have a private breakfast or lunch with, and why? He or she might just see this if we tag them.

Hilary Clinton. As a historical two time Clinton Scholar, it would be nice to send her a shout out. I’ll take a tea time meeting to discuss anything, preferably food and her foreign travels, any time of the day!

Thank you for these fantastic insights. We greatly appreciate the time you spent on this.

Thank you for including my insights! I believe more women sharing their experiences will contribute to a better framework for cultivating healthy workplaces.