Sarah Glover of Herd & Grace on Breaking Culinary Rules, Cooking Over Open Fire, and Embracing Creative Pivots

As a part of our series about women who are shaking things up in their industry, we had the pleasure of interviewing Chef Sarah Glover.

Sarah Glover is an internationally renowned chef, author and explorer, who has traveled the world in search of epic food and wild adventures. As a classically trained chef and pastry chef who has worked in Tasmania, Sydney and New York City, Sarah brings skill to fire-side cooking, scaling windswept cliffs and salty stretches of beach to create simple, uncomplicated and seriously tasty food. She is the author of several cookbooks, owner of the Wild Kitchen, and Chef Ambassador for Herd & Grace — the premium delivery service for high-quality proteins sourced from ethical pastures located in Australia and Tasmania that are featured in Michelin and AAA rated fine dining steakhouses and eateries around the world.

Thank you so much for doing this with us! Before we dig in, our readers would like to get to know you a bit more. Can you tell us a bit about your “backstory”? What led you to this particular career path?

I always enjoyed cooking as a kid. But the outdoor adventure style cooking happened in my early thirties when I had a little bit of a career crisis. I found myself back in Tasmania where I grew up, just enjoying life, when I started cooking over fire and for friends and family events. People just started noticing me more and more, tasting my food, which is what launched what I’m doing now.

Can you tell our readers what it is about the work you’re doing that’s disruptive?

As a chef, the disruptive nature is breaking down the traditional four walls of a restaurant and taking it outside. Typically, chefs build their career in a restaurant, whereas I built my career cooking over fire in a very playful manner, breaking a lot of the rules. Also, I think outdoor cooking especially has, for a long time, been fairly male dominated, which is weird because women were the ones that originally lit fires and tended the home in that regard. So, it’s in some ways bringing things back to the grassroots of our ancestors.

Can you share a story about the funniest mistake you made when you were first starting? Can you tell us what lesson you learned from that?

I was cooking a couple of lambs, and lambs tend to be fairly fatty. The fire was too hot and essentially they caught on fire and it was charcoal lamb pearl. You don’t learn this stuff in culinary school — there are principles that you do learn — but the actual art of fire cooking is something without rule books — something you have to discover for yourself.

We all need a little help along the journey. Who have been some of your mentors? Can you share a story about how they made an impact?

I really admire some of my peers, like Martha Stewart. She is an incredible woman that has been very resilient in her career path as a woman. Nigella Lawson is another one whom I look up to. I love Jamie Oliver, too. I think he is a great example of a man that’s so inclusive of everybody. And there are some peers like Gordon Ramsey who are successful for a reason, and not the assholes they portray on TV. They really are quite incredible human beings. And I think they deserve the platform they have, despite what the general public is led to believe.

In today’s parlance, being disruptive is usually a positive adjective. But is disrupting always good? When do we say the converse, that a system or structure has ‘withstood the test of time’? Can you articulate to our readers when disrupting an industry is positive, and when disrupting an industry is ‘not so positive’? Can you share some examples of what you mean?

I think that the positive disruptors in the culinary industry are always looking to push boundaries and create new atmospheres and dishes. This style and approach of live fire cooking has definitely evoked a lot of change in our culture of cooking. I think that’s very positive. But then on the flip side, the negative is that you are pushing boundaries. You don’t have a set restaurant; it’s evolving and changing. It makes it harder for people to experience live fire cooking without having a big event. I could have a restaurant that people could just come to in the Australian bush. But even if you wanted to do that, the culture in a lot of the Western world frowns upon this as hygiene cannot be as strictly regulated when cooking in the wild. It makes it difficult to even produce these environments.

Can you share 3 of the best words of advice you’ve gotten along your journey? Please give a story or example for each.

The first one would be to write down your dreams and work back from there. Don’t limit what it is that you want to do, but just be realistic with the timing. I knew from the age of 14 that I wanted to write cookbooks and be someone that was influential. So, now I’m in my mid-thirties and I’m living that out. It took a process of time for me to develop the character and skills to be able to have a platform and a voice that was worth recognition.

Don’t be afraid to make a mistake. I think we often wait for the opportune time for everything to be perfect. But on my journey of discovering Sarah in the culinary world and the creative world, a lot of what I did started from, not even intentionally, pursuing those things. When I started my cookie business, it stemmed from losing my job due to the recession. I started working in a cafe and a friend asked me to bake some products for her shop. Then another friend found out what I was doing and he said, “Well, I have a cafe. I’ll buy your cookies.” And then that’s how I launched my cookie company. When that ended, I catered my brother’s wedding. Because there was no other option but to cook on fire, that’s how I had to cook the meal. And people were like, “Oh, could you do this for our event?” That’s how I started; it was just very much an opportunity with someone recognizing something to put monetary value to it. And here I am now.

A third bit of advice would be to pursue what makes you happy. If you’ve lost your joy in what you’re doing, then you shouldn’t really be doing it anymore. You’ve got to want to be able to learn even at the moment you feel like you can’t learn. If you think you’ve reached that place of all-knowing, it’s time for change. Be intuitive with yourself and what makes you happy. For me, although I love cooking, I think deep down what makes me happiest is being creative. So that’s why I’ve been able to pivot in different careers from being a cookie baker, to being an outdoor fire chef, to writing cookbooks.

We are sure you aren’t done. How are you going to shake things up next?

I’m really looking to inspire people to not be afraid of cooking great steak with my recent partnership with Herd & Grace. And then next, I’ll be launching a podcast. It’s about helping people recognize what’s in their life and interviewing friends from all different spheres that I believe are some of the greatest in their industries. I want to give people a sense of early inspiration and hope for their future and what they can achieve. I’m launching that in the next few months and I’m hoping that in this next year we can also do some TV.

In your opinion, what are the biggest challenges faced by ‘women disruptors’ that aren’t typically faced by their male counterparts?

There’s unfortunately a male ego that is still a barrier. And I feel like that’s probably one of the biggest challenges for women. Unfortunately, men will never know or experience that. Not that I’m against men by any means, but it’s just harder for women to excel in a lot of these areas solely due to our design of being nurturers, probably being more emotional, and having our monthly cycles. There’s just so many things that we face in a month that men will never really have to experience. I think that we have tried to become the other gender to justify ourselves or our need for certain things. That’s quite evident in what I do. I try to embrace my inner self as a female. And I don’t try to be the other gender. But I do know that there is a clear boundary or wall in some way. It is unfortunate and I think it’s always been. I don’t think people are getting better at breaking the stigma, but it’s going to take education to not be needing competition between the two genders. I constantly see instances where guys look down on women — even unintentionally. It can come from a “friendly” gesture such as “Oh, I’ll pull you; I’ll give you a hand up; Here, let me help you.” I find that in what I do, even when it comes to the hunting community, there are guys who say, “Oh, I’ll carry that for you” (thinking that you can’t). Even the innate kindness of males can come across the wrong way when there is the expectation or belief that a woman can’t do something for herself.

While evolving, it’s been going on for generations. It will take time. I think there is a grace and patience that we need to have for one another in this. I do think that as women, we need to embrace who we are and not try to be the other party. And I think that when you are just confident in that, then you’re not needing anyone else’s approval. In that space, I feel that’s when the respect comes.

Do you have a book/podcast/talk that’s had a deep impact on your thinking? Can you share a story with us?

My upbringing in a Christian family with the Bible as a foundation and guide has impacted a lot of the way that I think about things and a lot of my values and morals in a positive way. Having a strong moral compass is important on the journey of building one’s career; without it, you get tossed about in the wave of life and become like a ship without rudder. In fact, you might even find yourself going around in circles without it.

You are a person of great influence. If you could inspire a movement that would bring the most amount of good to the most amount of people, what would that be? You never know what your idea can trigger. :-)

I would say communing around the table. I think that opening up the family table again, inviting people over to your home, having a fire pit going, or just sharing a meal with people will bring a lot of change because there’s so many lonely people in our communities. Perhaps the reason many restaurants are so packed these days is because people are looking to be surrounded by a community.

Can you please give us your favorite “Life Lesson Quote”?

The truth is always quiet, it’s the lies that are always loud.

How can our readers follow you online?

@missarahglover

This was very inspiring. Thank you so much for joining us!